
How to be a MACHO MAN-…Rule 1
Never offer your seat to a lady, however old she maybe, ever, in a crowded public vehicle.
Come on, it’s like breaking the secret vow of masculinity, you got to show how hard you are, tough guy, you got to get the girls swooning, I mean literally, girls will swoon in a crowded bus, being jostled from side to side, with all these tough guys around!
WOW!
Now, these men are not entirely to blame, because on all public transports in , KOLKATA,India, only .001/100000% of the total seats are allotted as “reserved” for us, “ladies”, as if in justification of our dwindling ratios!

STATISTICS STATISTICS…!
The rest 100000% is for all the macho hunks, of course, without doubt.
And compromising with these seats of honour, implies compromising with your valor,your manhood, sacrificing seats for these lesser mortals…NEVER!
And so all self respecting males zealously guard their seats against all those overpowering, dominatingly dangerous, lethal, old women-wobbly in the knees, women with babies in their arms, or a working lady, or any “femme fatale” for that matter…!
And as it happened…that last week, I was on my way to college, on a nice Kolkatan afternoon, tormented with the impending debacle of an exam.(Phew…its over now)
It was a crowded bus, but I somehow, managed to squeeze myself in, and even got a seat! LUCKY ME.
And then there was this old, really old lady, poor soul, she got up somehow, poor thing had some problem with her knees, and then some “kind” men offered her a corner, TO STAND!!!
HERCULES!
You can’t easily carve a corner, now,can you? Oh no, you can’t!…you kidding?
I was shrouded by a crowd, but I could hear her, asking people to make some room for her…poor old lady, and I was already upright, and offered her my seat! (Can’t stand @#$%^^%$$ no more, never did!)
Poor lady, was hesitant, but I shoved her in, and then handed her my stuff, to make it look that SHE was doing a favour to ME!
I won’t forget the expression on her face! never!
AM I BLOWING MY OWN TRUMPET…NO I DON’T THINK SO!
Its sad, I know, but such things are a rarity, if not a no show, in India, here people think it to be a show off, you know, the NGO’S kind of stuff, here no one leave their seats for no one!
No one makes room for no one!
And the men!!! Oh they just stared in awe…amazement,as if I had come down from space, probably thinking, “Is she stupid?”
I GAVE A GOOD EXAM THAT DAY!

Now all MEN are not that bad, NAY…there are also some KING-ARTHUR’S-KNIGHTS-TYPE, who will willingly forego their seats, to “ahem…young students”, but only if they happen to be shamelessly occupying any of the scarce “ladies seats”…
The general seating, out of question, that’s the undisputed territory of the MACHO MEN, the BRAVEHEARTS!
How charming, how valiant, how…! WONDERFUL!
I can’t manufacture any reason for such selective security, which men adopt to guard and preserve themselves; maybe they think they deserve that privilege, perhaps defending themselves against a divine arrangement, which made them as they are…as they happen to be… a rib shorter than women, perhaps…
But, still I can’t think of anything else…
CAN YOU???
SHAHWAR KIBRIA
NO ONE HERE AT INSTABLOGS HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTION!
???
The whole idea is so disgracing that I can ’t help but disagree with you .
Let me put my premise first . i think girls are in way inferior to men. I start from here and that is the basic premise. After this i feel bad that you want guys to lave a seat to save ”girls will swoon in a crowded bus, being jostled from side to side, with all these tough guys around!”
When there is no difference between a guy and girl then why should they swoon?
i agree about aged people, that too because physically they can’t help it, but for them anybody should leave seat; whether a boy or girl ..
You offering your seat was a gracious thing but nothing so big that you should say that a guy didn’t offer but you did . On the contrary by saying taht you admit that you believe a guy being more stronger should have offered her seat .
”i think girls are in way inferior to men.” = ”i think girls are in no way inferior to men.”
Anyway it is clear from my whole comment .
Anyway sorry for the blunder
Thanks for your comment!
and, boy did my post hit someone hard!
I suggest, bro, first relax, chill, and then read the post again!
You are missing the humour here...it’s nothing about being strong or weak, it’s about being COURTEOUS!
Ladies first anyone???
you are taking the post on a plain literal level, i suggest you loosen up, and try and read the subtextual humour, (only if you want to)
as for agreeing or disagreeing, NOT MY PROBLEM...
you are entitled to your own views, as I am equally to mine!
and your comment, was a tad too crude, confused and immature!
MY VIEW BRO..
...loosen up!
I missed the subtle context .
you have said it so subtly that anyone can miss, what to talk about hot-headed guy like me.
examples
headline : of ’MEN’ and their ’MANNERS’...!
subheadline: MACHO MAN-…Rule 1, Never offer your seat to a lady,
KOLKATA,India, only .001/100000% of the total seats are allotted as “reserved” for us, “ladies”,
Only courteousness : ”, which men adopt to guard and preserve themselves; maybe they think they deserve that privilege, perhaps defending themselves against a divine arrangement, which made them as they are…as they happen to be… a rib shorter than women, perhaps…”
Humor : The rest 100000% is for all the macho hunks, ( As if there can more than 100 percent seats.. Now i understand global financial crisis )
Clarity at its best :” And so all self respecting males zealously guard their seats against all those overpowering, dominatingly dangerous, lethal, old women-wobbly in the knees, women with babies in their arms, or a working lady, or any “femme fatale” for that matter…!”
I would like to apologize that i missed such words..
Anyway I have already written why people subtly or crudely are adamant in making female feel inferior to men .
Here a link http://arjunm.instablogs.com/entry/new-definition-of-sexual-harassment/
you being sarcastic,...
or just plain nonchalant???
whatever, I am all for verbal duels...especially on a subject which is a burning pain in the neck of our society!
Thanks for commenting!
you being sarcastic,...
or just plain nonchalant???
whatever, I am all for verbal duels...especially on a subject which is a burning pain in the neck of our society!
Thanks for commenting!
...and one more thing, you kinda dissected all humour OUT of my post there!
that looks like a data analysis sheet to me!
Several times have seen that even if all the general seats are filled and the seats marked specifically for women are empty... ppl do not usually utilise them.
This is totally unseen in North! believe it or not...but its a fact.
I think the Noth ppl should start copying the South life style.. preferably they should start from Rasam-Sambhar ;)...kidding
I think the Noth ppl should start copying the South life style.. preferably they should start from Rasam-Sambhar ;)...kidding
LOLTE LOL
Ameen to that...
...and yes I could agree with you no less, I have quite a number of friends at college, from the South,(even Sri Lankans included) and aren’t they GENTLEMAN, ALL OF THEM...
thanks for commenting!
Something more just came into my mind!
Jokes apart... I do not believe in any difference between men and women, so dont think leaving a seat by a guy for a girl is good... but leaving the seat by a one (he/she) for the elderly ppl should be must, and people should be educated for that. It doesnt mean that we do not know this... its just that we miss doing this on the spur of the moment.
Even I have done this, Once I was sitting in a crowded bus and an elderly gentleman came and stood next to me... I thought of offering him my seat... but then thought how would others react to it.... poor me... just kept on thinking about the stupid surrounding... and missed offering him seat... That was really very bad of me, but after that incident have made sure that whenever I am under such a situation... I vacate the seat first.
I think we need to nurture this attitude...
one suggestion: You and your friends can start doing this all the time (I know you already do this). What I am trying to mention here is that we need to create an awareness about it. You know something very good in our society... We are able to learn from others very quickly...so utilise them.
Dont stop until you succeed!
but then thought how would others react to it.... poor me... just kept on thinking about the stupid surrounding... and missed offering him seat...
I am sure this is the case for many people here...they have benign intentions, but they regress into impoliteness due to a subconscious phobia- WHAT WILL OTHERS THINK!
with hell to other people and their piercing thoughts...one should always DO, what they ought to!
as for me and my friends, we all try and do our little part in the seat game whenever we can!
I just hope there are others who can follow suit!
as for giving up seats for elders, that’s a done thing!
but still, i think, ”some” not all, there are decent people also, some men should rather have the decency to offer their seats to women, instead of ogling at them!
and thanks for taking the post in the right spirit!
It will take time to change ppl’s mind, But I would say if you are able to change one person’s mind within a period of one year.... You have already won one set in the game!
achievable ....right...
just never be down in your spirits...keep them high all the time inspite of failures... as thats the mantra of success !
Wish you and your friends all the best...
I think times have changed. The author of this piece believes that she is more in league with the ” humour element” of the article so I am not going to enter in serious analysis of her article.
However, women too are fast losing the attributes that once made them object of admiration.You seem to have forgotten the fact that women too give way to same ”selective security” whenever they get an opportunity to do so.In fact,they are more cunning and shrewd in in devising new ways/means to materialize their vested interests.
I appreciate what you did but then there are many men who go out of the way to make women feel comfortable both in train and bus,even at the risk of being misunderstood.I am sure you are aware of the fact that ”my tribe” runs the risk of being misunderstood if it starts developing soft corner for women too often ..ha..ha.
Excerpt from a conversation between an aged TT and a well-looking young girl in her 20s in a sleeper class of a VVIP Train:
” Chal Be Buddhein Seat Pe Baithenein De.Jyada Niyam Na Sangha ”
(She said it when TT tried to explain her that it’s against the rules to travel in sleeper class without a valid ticket.)
What conclusion should I arrive at?
”many men who go out of the way to make women feel comfortable both in train and bus”
ofcourse there are, I am sure of it, but haven’t seen it happening yet!
Thanks for commenting!
Thanks!
So, Mr.Arvind, you are trying to glean out a valid cause for such ”manly” behaviour aren’t you...
...sort of hinting that had women been more ”DESIRABLE” (I HATE WRITING THIS)then you all could have spared a thought and a seat as well!
WOW!!!
That’s a demand plan, i wonder what all women everywhere would have to say to something as abhorrent as that???
that’s some decent explanation you have there Mr.Arvind!
Good going!
“As you sow, so shall you reap”.
It’s time to be realistic Shahwar.There is no point in burying one’s head in sand.If one is more interested in indulging in premeditated orientations then I think he/she will never be able to interact with harsh realities of life.There is also no need of using ”flowery expressions” while depicting life as it is.
Anyway, I did not intend to convey that impression but sadly that’s a bitter truth whether you accept it or not.
I have also stated that there are many men/women who show extraordinary gestures in times of crisis.At the same time ,I have seen many times young women refusing to vacate the seat for senior citizens.
We also need to take them into consideration instead of jumping to vain conclusions via sketchy analysis!!!
LOL! Tell me about it. I know that feeling only too well!!
(See my post about the subway/getting older etc.)
Without wanting to get into the polemic here, I personally think it’s cool to help women with babies-in-arms (they find it difficult to stand with only one hand free, pregnant women of all ages, women with a lot of shopping etc, older people, and, of course, the pretty woman I am trying to be gallant too LOL!!!!
Common sense really, isn’t it?
And just good-old-fashioned civil behaviour.
Yep!!
To tell you more ”common sense is very uncommon in todays world”... stupiity rules!
And just good-old-fashioned civil behaviour...
HEY PEOPLE OUT THERE,IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK???
maybe here it is, sadly enough!
and also the cliched line...
”commonsense ain’t too common here”
:)
It’s the land of the gallant freaks!
(some of whom think they are being just and fair and fine, by NOT offering a seat to their opposite opponent!)
A GENERAL OBSERVATION!
LOL!
...along with brazennes!
what happened to plain, and simple, GOOD MANNERS...!
that’s all!
Period!
(and at the risk of offending certain points of view),
This is cultural too.
It is really badly seen here for a man not to give up a seat to those who need it. I’m not saying it’s systematic to give up a seat, but it’s very common. (As I said, it even happened to ME!!)
If what you say in the post is true though, and from what I read in the comments, all I can say is that it’s another world.
Certain attitudes expressed on the post would be TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE here.
Hope this helps to ”perspectivise” things.
(”Perspectivise”. New regular verb, invented by yours truly)
Byeee!!
AND, because my idea of a pretty woman isn’t necessarily yours, they ALL get a seat from time to time!!
What could be cooler than that!!
Just courtoisie and human interaction.
Seeya...
”It is really badly seen here for a man not to give up a seat to those who need it!”
That’s how it should be seen,everywhere and i doubt if it is not likewise here as well!
...but the misery lies in the fact that, there, people actually care about being ”badly seen” as you put it, here, sometimes they just don’t!
i have not written the post to vent my anger at my own miseries...as i said, i most ”fortunately” get seats, but there are several others who don’t and i seriously DON’T appreciate it!
even old people!
it’s a strange world!
and with stranger refutations, some here on my post as well!
and our job, is to live through it...!
unless...
Thanks for commenting!
You are (maybe unwittingly?) absolutely right.
”Being badly seen” is very strong here. It has to do with the rigid social code that the French set themselves. There are downsides to it (another subject) but one upside is, as you imply, that French people in general detest inelegant manners.
Men who infringe this social convention get called ”goujat” which translates into ”lout” ”uncouth person” or ”uneducated boor”.
And a Frenchman (and me too) would rather DIE than be called that!!!! LOL!
Courage.......
Yes I agree with you...seriously...i honestly think it takes a great deal of COURAGE to be polite and courteous!
that’s why it’s so rare!
thanks for joining in...and with ”good & decent” opinions!
:)
Just like Oscar’s. I could have written all his comments........
you are welcome!
:)
foreigners used to really appreciate & insisted on holding may bag
young girls used to behave as if they are doing me a favor by taking my seat & used to be upset that i am not thanking them for accepting my hospitality
now my curtsy is limited to aged , pregnant ladies , kids & so on
sorry but i refuse to feel i am making a fool of myself with some one not possessing of lady like quality
Don’t you think that it’s important to do it anyway? I mean yes it’s frustrating when people don’t (and you’re right, it happens) thank others for kindnesses, but it’s not systematic.
If we stopped holding doors, lifts etc and giving up our seats because of a few people’s behaviour, then no-one would be polite to anyone any more, and bad behaviour will have won the day.....
It’s a bit like working with homeless people (which I have). They don’t always seem very appreciative of what is done for them, but we can’t let that stop us helping them....
” young girls used to behave as if they are doing me a favor by taking my seat & used to be upset that i am not thanking them for accepting my hospitality ”....
Good observation....ha..ha..
Eager to inform u that I have had similar experiences and interestingly gave way to similar approach.I never miss an opportunity to lend a helping hand to ” aged , pregnant ladies , kids & so on ” but I have to think twice when a pretty lady is involved..ha..ha
Very well said.
Thanks for commenting, and I do appreciate your gesture, to the fairer sex, stuck in unfair circumstances!
Firstly, thanks for commenting...
and thanks again for assuring a piece of heaven, still there, glittering amidst the jungle of ”justice”
Ooty...is a picturesque place with heavenly manners(which you most kindly, informed us all about)
That’s heaven...on my word!
It feels nice when there are some people in some part of the world who still think that being a HUMAN means having an armoury of ”human” behaviours!
might sound old school, but good manners, civility, and a good language, is still effective in creating golden impressions upon the female sisterhood worldwide!
:) :) :)
regards!
My wife, an american does the same..for men, women, children, elderly..in need or not..
We have taught our children to do the same..Isa is ten, and and is always eager to help with door, grocery bags, etc...
I don’t think it has anything to do with MACHOISM or FEMINISM..weak or strong...
I only see it as being HUMAN..Of course once offered, every individual has the right to DENY our assistance..but it is being courteous..The thought that counts, even if the act is not accepted..
I will agree with many comments..Times have changed.. ”Ladies” aren’t always what we once considered ”lady-like”...but SO WHAT...They are HUMAN..I can’t say I would offer my seat to EVERY 16 year old girl (hell I’M old...lol), but I would most definitly acess the situation..and I would definitly, open the door for her, help her with overloaded bags, etc...
Like I said...We need to change our thinking..It’s not about MAN or WOMAN..That type of thinking may be out ”of style.”
BUT BASIC CIVIL COURTEOUSNESS AND HUMANITY does not go out of style.
It’s not THAT complicated chrissakes!!!
Thank you so much for a civilised point of view Oscar.
Can’t comment it, because it would all be ”yes I agree” everywhere!!! LOL
Good observations.However,there are many contradiction in the points raised in your comment.I hope you are aware of them.I do not intend to enter in serious discussion in a piece projected as ”humorous article”!!
If woman is merely human and more or less ”EQUAL”(Women are equal...Girls are equal..)then there is no need of laws and provisions which are woman oriented.Let no seats be reserved for woman in buses and trains.The fact is that men and women can never be equal.There is no point in harboring the illusion that both are equal.When I say that I don’t mean that women are inferior in any way to men.Let’s make the way smooth for them but in the process let’s not forget the differences.
Helo my friend..When I say women , girls are ”equal”....I mean it..As humans you, I, the old the young, the weak the strong MEN or WOMEN all have the same HUMAN value...
Maybe you feel different, and that is every bit your right, bit I firmly believe two (or more species or objects, etc..) can be distinctly different and still hold the same value: This is equality in my eyes...
My point is just that (what you mentioned) I DON’T feel special laws or provisions should be made for women OR MEN for that matter...WE ARE ALL HUMAN..
I think a couteous person who saw a woman or man or child in need (pregnant, carrying a child, elderly, frail, children, sick...etc) would do what he/she could to help the other person......whether it be a seat, a door, a lift, a hand, a smile, a thanks, etc....
I think an WOMAN should do the same..whether it be for a man, woman, or child...I am simply stating about HUMAN equality and the need for courtousy in society..regardless of sex..
I could never paint a picture that men and women are the SAME...we have many different qualities and characterisitcs..but when it comes down to it, they all balance out to create equality in the HUMAN RACE.
The most intelligent of all on this page.
”bit I firmly believe two (or more species or objects, etc..) can be distinctly different and still hold the same value: This is equality in my eyes...”
Thanks for accepting that ”difference” exists,albeit in a subtle way.I am also in favour of total”HUMAN equality” for women.
All problems start when women fail to realize that there exists a ”distinctly different” difference!!!!There is something called honouring one’s limitations,Let’s also remember that.
Lioness and domestic cat belong to the same family but that does not mean we should forget the difference.The difference exists or ,for that matter, is always going to exist.It’s up to us whether we accept it or not.Once we accept that fact there is bound to be difference in ways and means and perceptions.There is no need to be feel ashamed at our limitations.
WELCOME!
BUT BASIC CIVIL COURTEOUSNESS AND HUMANITY does not go out of style
BLESS YOU FOR THAT...!
That’s the bottomline, starting line, and the middling line of this post!
I am NOT a FEMINIST...it’s fanaticism...a mere clarification, not solely intended at you!
lol
and yes, I have seen ladies vacating their seats for old men, it happened on the same bus on which i offered my own seat...
I saw it, i face it...and thus I FEEL ABOUT IT!
HUMANS...here we all are people...lets not save our deeds for judgement day...lets act out WELL now, to make life a bit more bearable for all around!
this ain’t about signing a peace treaty, or a war referendum...it’s not about going beyond borders with guns laden with patriotic bullets...
...it’s about utilising these little opportunities to make life HAPPIER...even if not for you...but for the rest!
THE HUMAN CODE OF HAPPINESS!
...almost all ”men” here have somehow or the other most saliently mentiond that they DO offer their seats...
...and i wholeheartedly appreciate them for that...
...but then again, they personally having no objection to it, are frantically defending people who DON’T,offer seats that is,
WHY???
owing to varied reasons, the hottest being, ”women are showing signs of degrading womanness”-AND I WONDER WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THAT???
WHY???
We are no longer in the 40’s, 50’s etc..Women don’t NEED to be meager, etc..Women are equal...Girls are equal..Just becaue they don’t wear head to toe dresses, avoid eye contact, and sit with legs crossed, hands peacefully and femininly folded in their laps, smiling in SILENCE, doesn’t mean they are NOT lady like...TIMES CHANGE..
PEOPLE DON’T, HUMANS DON’T, COMMON COURTEOUSY DOESN’T (or shouldn’t)..
My wife says ”have a nice day”, ”Good Morning (afternoon, etc..) to every one she sees..We say please, thank you, May I, Could you please....
This HAS NOTHING to do with what MEN SHOULD DO FOR women...., AND EVERYTHING to do with what we should do for our fellow citizen: man, women, child, old, young, ugly, pretty, poor, rich and in between.
”owing to varied reasons, the hottest being, ”women are showing signs of degrading womanness”-AND I WONDER WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THAT???”
Women themselves are to be blamed for this ”degradation” besides ideologies which make women forget about honouring limitations.
We love to point out differences in so many things and interestingly we readily accept them.But when we talk about differences between man and woman there are lots of raised eyebrows.
Yes,let’s make life of a woman at par with men or,for that matter,take all steps to elevate her stature as a human being but not without keeping differences in mind.
If that sounds provocative and absurd then please kill the labels like ”man” and ”woman”.Let’s frame new rules which are not gender oriented.I know it’s an utopian ideal because a woman is always going to be a woman in the ages.That’s also true for man as well..ha..ha.
We may pretend that we have carved routes which are not gender specific but pretending is not going to quash the stark reality-the great difference.
I know it’s an Utopian ideal because a woman is always going to be a woman in all the ages.
offering a seat to a male or a female or anyone, is not a means of making spatial room for the other!
ofcourse there are men, who must be tired, men who deserve the seat more...
...but the SEAT here people is a mere emblem of human behaviour, the oft repeated and disregarded ”courtesy”
it’s about making room for people, within and without...
it’s about being kind...
it’s about not missing an opportunity to act, for the other!
it’s a gesture, the seat is just a conduit!
Sex wars should be a thing of the past, my friend, and for that to happen there needs to be a little less mutual distrust and ”you-change-first” and a little more compromise and sociability.
Respects.
There are two things I hate in life.
One is cold showers, and the other is
PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SITE TO SELL PRODUCT!!!!!
Please stop. If you do not, sorry to say this, you will BE stopped by the site.
Your comments on the post were cool.
Selling stuff isn’t.
Conclusion - choose.
Or the choice will be made for you.
(Friendly advice).
Seeya!
”One hand you say that you go shoulder to shoulder with men and then the other hand you show that you are poor little things”
this post is not a feminist manifesto crying out loud about feminine problems!
this is about reminding all, that HUMAN BEHAVIOUR IS COOL and should not be forgotten!
about human behaviour and civility...which is decent...don’t you think so...?
”i mean instead of old lady there was to be an old man,will a woman offer him her seat????never”
YOU ARE WRONG
I THINK THEY ALL SHOULD...I DO AND WOULD DO IT...
...and i have seen others(LADIES) doing it as well!
see it’s not a war we are fighting here...this is just my side of the story...
”Look into your side first and then blame others,o.k.....”
TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!
His frequent interruptions in form of his comments have become like a mobile ringing amid a serious conversation...ha..ha.
hey, STOP IT, WILL YOU???
without being gender specific let us be needs pecefic
i will give a seat to a pregnant lady any day also to a handicapped or a child
for a mother with a child i will expect her to stand near ladies seat to wait her turn
as as much as 30% seats are reserved for ladies at certain public transport
exactly, that’s the HUMAN CODE OF HAPPY CONDUCT!
it’s not gender specific, it’s people specific...though it generally and habitually tends to tilt to a particular gender!
LOL
:)
sk
i feel disappointed when despite sufficient seats being reserved for ladies they hover around general sections & expect men old enough to be their father or grand father to offer them seats
this is hypocracy & does not vibe with gender equality
though rowdiness is not the sole prerogative of men i find the behavior of girls in popular reality show roadies deplorable
the way they utter profanity & their bohemian life style puts me off
their boozing & smoking just to prove a point of their being rough & tough shows the lack of self belief
a tiger seldom asserts itself so ladies can be assertive in a dignified manner
back slapping & hugging men & cracking dirty jokes , pelvic movements on raunchy numbers may not be the only way
to sound cool , applies to men also
of course times are changing & i better accept the same
this program(roadies) is a favorite of my wife & daughter
personally i never take initiative to shake hands with ladies ( also for men as i feel that i may catch infection)
Yes, i will agree to all the alterations which are creeping into the ”female”...but that’s a different story altogether...
here i am urging people to take out their decency out of their cupboards and wear it on the streets....
they will look much better!
we ARE NOT debating here on gender degradation...but the dilapidating norms of social courtsey!
some commentators on this post have ”benignly” diverted the fulcrum away from the main intent of my post...much to my frustation...
Thank You!
Terrific observations.
@ Shahwar K
we ARE NOT debating here on gender degradation...but the dilapidating norms of social courtesy!
The dilapiadating norms of social courtesy are inseparably linked with moral degradation.Greater the degradation, lesser becomes the urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.
Anyway, all such ”norms of social courtesy” are indicative of our ”SAMSKARAS”.No need to tell that most of us are not in possession of prized Samskaras.
Terrific observations.
@ Shahwar K
we ARE NOT debating here on gender degradation...but the dilapidating norms of social courtesy!
The dilapiadating norms of social courtesy are inseparably linked with moral degradation.Greater the degradation, lesser becomes the urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.
Anyway, all such ”norms of social courtesy” are indicative of our ”SAMSKARAS”.No need to tell that most of us are not in possession of prized Samskaras.
”Greater the degradation, lesser becomes the urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.”
you are confused...and are confusing me as well...
what, pray is the difference between
1.moral degradation
and
2.urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.
they are one and the same thing!!!
I was forced to reply to this...”moral degradation, is in my view, simply, a more ”compact phrase”, for statement no.2!
and moreover...MORALITY has nothing to do with anything in my post here...
It’s got to do with ”civility”...which I think everyone can afford to exhibit...
whereas
MORAL DEGRADATION is an inherent human failing...that can hardly be rectified in many cases!
Morality is different...
Civility is different!
For the umpteenth time I will say that, this post tells one about ”what” is missing...and that it would have been much better if that ”something” would have been there!
what many people here have done is, to furnish various ”reasons” why they think what they are not doing is something they rightly shouldn’t, owing to unlady like ladies, and blah blah blah...
fine with me...people are free and entitled to as many excuses as their conscience may permit them!
AND PLEASE!!!DO NOT TRY AND ENTANGLE STUFF HERE IN THE ”MORAL” CIRCUS!
thank you...I hope the ”flowery language” acts no hindrance in getting the point safely across to you!
I am not all confused. Just think more. You will definitely come to establish a link between social courtesy and moral degradation.
It’s not about difference. What I wish to say that urge to respect ”civility” is rarely seen in people plagued by moral degradation.
On the contrary I feel you were not sure about the issue at hand. Had you been sure you would have not linked ”civility” with ”manhood”.
Since you have linked civility with traits governing man, the commentators are bound to target mannerism of women which would not have been the case had you really discussed about civility alone in your ”humorous” piece.
One thing more.I feel none of the commentators are defending men for ” not offering their seats ” when they talk about ”falling standards” in behaviour of women.They are simply pointing out missing elements in your article which looks more like outpourings of a die-hard ”feminist” instead of person bothered about lack of civility.
IS DISPLAY OF CIVILITY GENDER-ORIENTED?
ofcourse it’s not...and that’s why I wonder why moral degradation has been linked with women alone here...
as simple as that!
”missing elements in your article which looks more like outpourings of a die-hard ”feminist” instead of person bothered about lack of civility.”
WOW!
and there are, ofcourse there are missing elements...and that happens to be the ”courtesy” i have been talking about all this while...
...this post didn’t start out as anti-man...but you’ll directed the post to a gender gang war! :)
as i said earlier, somewhere in my comments...that this is my side of the story...and I happen to be a female...and if speaking for my clan...leads it to be labeled as being ”feminist” THEN SO BE IT!
I DON’T CARE...IT’S BETTER TO BE A FEMINIST...atleast I didn’t call anyone’s MORAL STANDARDS INTO QUESTION HERE...which you quite painstakingly delved into...
loosen up...!
and yes, one more thing...you ARE, still...CONFUSED!
civilty...and morality...have nought chemistry...
but if you choose to remain in happy delusion...!
-
It’s crystal clear to me that your intentions were dubious while penning the article In other words, a mere glance on your article is sufficient to reveal that your motive was to enter in male-bashing in a so-called “humorous article” that purportedly talks about honouring “civility”. I don’t know whether you did it knowingly or unknowingly?
Anyway, I should have a respect for your viewpoint in an environment surcharged with feminine vibrations!!!
Well, if you think that issue of “moral degradation” has been invoked to justify male behaviour then you are wrong. Both are victim of this degradation and it’s a phenomenon that has affected both sexes in equal measures. One was forced to attribute it to a woman because of your obsession with limited view of what’s really taking place in world in your article that deals with “’MEN’ and their ’MANNERS’...! ”
In nutshell, let’s view things in totality. Just because a man has unfolded the hidden truths about a woman one cannot accuse him of being anti-feminist.
Well, I am sure that I am not enveloped in “happy delusion”, forget about being confused.
“civilty...and morality...have nought chemistry...”
Here is a short piece that establishes chemistry (read relation) with them.
***********************************
CIVILITY
Civility...is the sum of the many sacrifices we are called to make for the sake of living together. When we pretend that we travel alone, we can also pretend that these sacrifices are unnecessary. Yielding to this very human instinct for self-seeking... is often immoral, and certainly should not be done without forethought. We should make sacrifices for others not simply because doing so makes social life easier (although it does), but as a signal of respect for our fellow citizens, marking them as full equals, both before law and before God. Rules of civility are thus also rules of morality; it is morally proper to treat our fellow citizens with respect, and morally improper not to. Our crisis of civility then is part of a larger crisis of morality. And because morality is what distinguishes humans from other animals, the crisis is ultimately one of humanity.
((Taken from Civility: Manners, Morals, and the Etiquette of Democracy by Stephen L. Carter)
*****************************************
His writings are based on his being a religious man, and linking civility to secular morality is, for him, evidence that man alone cannot be civil.
Carter writes, in the book quoted,
”civility, like any other moral principle, has no firm rock on which to stand. Civility that rests on the shifting sands of secular morality might topple with the next stiff political wind.”
He thus believes in a link between civility and morality, but only when they are both associated with religious principles.
In the western world his book (and work in general) has often been negatively reviewed due to what is seen as his over-emphasised assimilation of the question of civility (or whatever else he writes about) to religion.
Example of a negative review?
”Carter crams so many notions of virtuous behavior into his discussion of civility that the term ceases to have any specific meaning at all”.
Make of all this what you will....
...Make of all this what you will....
I make nought of it...LOL!
as you can see, I do not accept linking civility with morality...even though however wrong I may be!
And moreover, my post didn’t start or in any way culminate on that motive either!
If ”some” people here wish to entangle themselves in unnecessary hazards...all I can do is wish them at it!
LOL!
Am really grateful as usual to you for joining in with those precious comments!
Thank you Michael!
But I can well understand those who do too, and I have no problem with it.
I mean, it isn’t important at the end of the day. What IS important is being civilised.
After all, giving money to a beggar is a cool gesture, whether you do it out of piety or just wanting to help the guy buy a sandwich LOL!!
people who are just plain, good old fashioned kind...
needn’t worry either...
whatever the do, ou of piety, or civility,
gets registered in one’s DIVINE SCORE CARD...
so even if you want it or not, you are getting your scores alright!
it’s linked but in a very delinked way...
gaseous chain!
DARN!
need based help should be given to any one who is needy
it will be graceful if the same is appreciated else the do gooder should keep doing good without expecting any thing
a tree gives fruit to those who pelt it with stones
sk ignorance is bliss
you may reply to a sarcastic\irrational remark silently
your time energy has much better uses
sorry for the unwanted advice
I thank you very much for your comment!
And I really appreciate it as well!
”sorry for the unwanted advice”
Sir, please do not embarass me by saying this...I respect you, and your opinions about everything...and Sir, you being my elder, moreover with a sane and composed mind, I shall gladly as ever accept and comply with your advice...
Really appreciated it!
Thank you Sir!
It’s not at all an” unwanted advice”!! Tightening up the debate, when issues raised by the author have been dealt with in light of proper arguments, is surely killing time and energy both!!
” it will be graceful if the same is appreciated else the do gooder should keep doing good without expecting any thing....a tree gives fruit to those who pelt it with stones...”
—This state of mind is not easy to attain. I hope you are aware of that fact. That’s called “samattva” and only a ”sthiti pargaya” can attain this state.
************************************
@ SHAHWAR K
—–Enjoyed talking with you. Let’s suspend the discussion aimed at establishing a link between ”morality” and ”civility”. A serious debate is not possible in an issue raised in lighter vein!!!
“There can be no high civility without a deep morality” – Ralph Waldo Emerson
***********************************
@ MICHAEL C
”After all, giving money to a beggar is a cool gesture, whether you do it out of piety or just wanting to help the guy buy a sandwich LOL!!””
—–Interesting view. It’s better if such “COOL GESTURE” gets combined with right intention!!!
*********************************************************************
merry christmas
hope there is no blood shed on this day
Local Opinions (59)
Good!
...but scaffolded by an ironical subtext of deep heartfelt pathos!
LOL!
thanks for commenting...b.t.w., you not in a mood of defending your tribe, are you?
fair enough!
:)
NO ONE HERE AT INSTABLOGS HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTION!
???
The whole idea is so disgracing that I can ’t help but disagree with you .
Let me put my premise first . i think girls are in way inferior to men. I start from here and that is the basic premise. After this i feel bad that you want guys to lave a seat to save ”girls will swoon in a crowded bus, being jostled from side to side, with all these tough guys around!”
When there is no difference between a guy and girl then why should they swoon?
i agree about aged people, that too because physically they can’t help it, but for them anybody should leave seat; whether a boy or girl ..
You offering your seat was a gracious thing but nothing so big that you should say that a guy didn’t offer but you did . On the contrary by saying taht you admit that you believe a guy being more stronger should have offered her seat .
”i think girls are in way inferior to men.” = ”i think girls are in no way inferior to men.”
Anyway it is clear from my whole comment .
Anyway sorry for the blunder
Thanks for your comment!
and, boy did my post hit someone hard!
I suggest, bro, first relax, chill, and then read the post again!
You are missing the humour here...it’s nothing about being strong or weak, it’s about being COURTEOUS!
Ladies first anyone???
you are taking the post on a plain literal level, i suggest you loosen up, and try and read the subtextual humour, (only if you want to)
as for agreeing or disagreeing, NOT MY PROBLEM...
you are entitled to your own views, as I am equally to mine!
and your comment, was a tad too crude, confused and immature!
MY VIEW BRO..
...loosen up!
I missed the subtle context .
you have said it so subtly that anyone can miss, what to talk about hot-headed guy like me.
examples
headline : of ’MEN’ and their ’MANNERS’...!
subheadline: MACHO MAN-…Rule 1, Never offer your seat to a lady,
KOLKATA,India, only .001/100000% of the total seats are allotted as “reserved” for us, “ladies”,
Only courteousness : ”, which men adopt to guard and preserve themselves; maybe they think they deserve that privilege, perhaps defending themselves against a divine arrangement, which made them as they are…as they happen to be… a rib shorter than women, perhaps…”
Humor : The rest 100000% is for all the macho hunks, ( As if there can more than 100 percent seats.. Now i understand global financial crisis )
Clarity at its best :” And so all self respecting males zealously guard their seats against all those overpowering, dominatingly dangerous, lethal, old women-wobbly in the knees, women with babies in their arms, or a working lady, or any “femme fatale” for that matter…!”
I would like to apologize that i missed such words..
Anyway I have already written why people subtly or crudely are adamant in making female feel inferior to men .
Here a link http://arjunm.instablogs.com/entry/new-definition-of-sexual-harassment/
you being sarcastic,...
or just plain nonchalant???
whatever, I am all for verbal duels...especially on a subject which is a burning pain in the neck of our society!
Thanks for commenting!
you being sarcastic,...
or just plain nonchalant???
whatever, I am all for verbal duels...especially on a subject which is a burning pain in the neck of our society!
Thanks for commenting!
...and one more thing, you kinda dissected all humour OUT of my post there!
that looks like a data analysis sheet to me!
I think the Noth ppl should start copying the South life style.. preferably they should start from Rasam-Sambhar ;)...kidding
LOLTE LOL
Ameen to that...
...and yes I could agree with you no less, I have quite a number of friends at college, from the South,(even Sri Lankans included) and aren’t they GENTLEMAN, ALL OF THEM...
thanks for commenting!
but then thought how would others react to it.... poor me... just kept on thinking about the stupid surrounding... and missed offering him seat...
I am sure this is the case for many people here...they have benign intentions, but they regress into impoliteness due to a subconscious phobia- WHAT WILL OTHERS THINK!
with hell to other people and their piercing thoughts...one should always DO, what they ought to!
as for me and my friends, we all try and do our little part in the seat game whenever we can!
I just hope there are others who can follow suit!
as for giving up seats for elders, that’s a done thing!
but still, i think, ”some” not all, there are decent people also, some men should rather have the decency to offer their seats to women, instead of ogling at them!
and thanks for taking the post in the right spirit!
I think times have changed. The author of this piece believes that she is more in league with the ” humour element” of the article so I am not going to enter in serious analysis of her article.
However, women too are fast losing the attributes that once made them object of admiration.You seem to have forgotten the fact that women too give way to same ”selective security” whenever they get an opportunity to do so.In fact,they are more cunning and shrewd in in devising new ways/means to materialize their vested interests.
I appreciate what you did but then there are many men who go out of the way to make women feel comfortable both in train and bus,even at the risk of being misunderstood.I am sure you are aware of the fact that ”my tribe” runs the risk of being misunderstood if it starts developing soft corner for women too often ..ha..ha.
Excerpt from a conversation between an aged TT and a well-looking young girl in her 20s in a sleeper class of a VVIP Train:
” Chal Be Buddhein Seat Pe Baithenein De.Jyada Niyam Na Sangha ”
(She said it when TT tried to explain her that it’s against the rules to travel in sleeper class without a valid ticket.)
What conclusion should I arrive at?
”many men who go out of the way to make women feel comfortable both in train and bus”
ofcourse there are, I am sure of it, but haven’t seen it happening yet!
Thanks for commenting!
And just good-old-fashioned civil behaviour...
HEY PEOPLE OUT THERE,IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK???
maybe here it is, sadly enough!
and also the cliched line...
”commonsense ain’t too common here”
:)
It’s the land of the gallant freaks!
(some of whom think they are being just and fair and fine, by NOT offering a seat to their opposite opponent!)
A GENERAL OBSERVATION!
LOL!
...along with brazennes!
what happened to plain, and simple, GOOD MANNERS...!
that’s all!
Period!
So, Mr.Arvind, you are trying to glean out a valid cause for such ”manly” behaviour aren’t you...
...sort of hinting that had women been more ”DESIRABLE” (I HATE WRITING THIS)then you all could have spared a thought and a seat as well!
WOW!!!
That’s a demand plan, i wonder what all women everywhere would have to say to something as abhorrent as that???
that’s some decent explanation you have there Mr.Arvind!
Good going!
”It is really badly seen here for a man not to give up a seat to those who need it!”
That’s how it should be seen,everywhere and i doubt if it is not likewise here as well!
...but the misery lies in the fact that, there, people actually care about being ”badly seen” as you put it, here, sometimes they just don’t!
i have not written the post to vent my anger at my own miseries...as i said, i most ”fortunately” get seats, but there are several others who don’t and i seriously DON’T appreciate it!
even old people!
it’s a strange world!
and with stranger refutations, some here on my post as well!
and our job, is to live through it...!
unless...
Thanks for commenting!
“As you sow, so shall you reap”.
It’s time to be realistic Shahwar.There is no point in burying one’s head in sand.If one is more interested in indulging in premeditated orientations then I think he/she will never be able to interact with harsh realities of life.There is also no need of using ”flowery expressions” while depicting life as it is.
Anyway, I did not intend to convey that impression but sadly that’s a bitter truth whether you accept it or not.
I have also stated that there are many men/women who show extraordinary gestures in times of crisis.At the same time ,I have seen many times young women refusing to vacate the seat for senior citizens.
We also need to take them into consideration instead of jumping to vain conclusions via sketchy analysis!!!
foreigners used to really appreciate & insisted on holding may bag
young girls used to behave as if they are doing me a favor by taking my seat & used to be upset that i am not thanking them for accepting my hospitality
now my curtsy is limited to aged , pregnant ladies , kids & so on
sorry but i refuse to feel i am making a fool of myself with some one not possessing of lady like quality
” young girls used to behave as if they are doing me a favor by taking my seat & used to be upset that i am not thanking them for accepting my hospitality ”....
Good observation....ha..ha..
Eager to inform u that I have had similar experiences and interestingly gave way to similar approach.I never miss an opportunity to lend a helping hand to ” aged , pregnant ladies , kids & so on ” but I have to think twice when a pretty lady is involved..ha..ha
Yes I agree with you...seriously...i honestly think it takes a great deal of COURAGE to be polite and courteous!
that’s why it’s so rare!
thanks for joining in...and with ”good & decent” opinions!
:)
Thanks for commenting, and I do appreciate your gesture, to the fairer sex, stuck in unfair circumstances!
Firstly, thanks for commenting...
and thanks again for assuring a piece of heaven, still there, glittering amidst the jungle of ”justice”
Ooty...is a picturesque place with heavenly manners(which you most kindly, informed us all about)
That’s heaven...on my word!
It feels nice when there are some people in some part of the world who still think that being a HUMAN means having an armoury of ”human” behaviours!
might sound old school, but good manners, civility, and a good language, is still effective in creating golden impressions upon the female sisterhood worldwide!
:) :) :)
regards!
WELCOME!
BUT BASIC CIVIL COURTEOUSNESS AND HUMANITY does not go out of style
BLESS YOU FOR THAT...!
That’s the bottomline, starting line, and the middling line of this post!
I am NOT a FEMINIST...it’s fanaticism...a mere clarification, not solely intended at you!
lol
and yes, I have seen ladies vacating their seats for old men, it happened on the same bus on which i offered my own seat...
I saw it, i face it...and thus I FEEL ABOUT IT!
HUMANS...here we all are people...lets not save our deeds for judgement day...lets act out WELL now, to make life a bit more bearable for all around!
this ain’t about signing a peace treaty, or a war referendum...it’s not about going beyond borders with guns laden with patriotic bullets...
...it’s about utilising these little opportunities to make life HAPPIER...even if not for you...but for the rest!
THE HUMAN CODE OF HAPPINESS!
...almost all ”men” here have somehow or the other most saliently mentiond that they DO offer their seats...
...and i wholeheartedly appreciate them for that...
...but then again, they personally having no objection to it, are frantically defending people who DON’T,offer seats that is,
WHY???
owing to varied reasons, the hottest being, ”women are showing signs of degrading womanness”-AND I WONDER WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THAT???
WHY???
offering a seat to a male or a female or anyone, is not a means of making spatial room for the other!
ofcourse there are men, who must be tired, men who deserve the seat more...
...but the SEAT here people is a mere emblem of human behaviour, the oft repeated and disregarded ”courtesy”
it’s about making room for people, within and without...
it’s about being kind...
it’s about not missing an opportunity to act, for the other!
it’s a gesture, the seat is just a conduit!
Good observations.However,there are many contradiction in the points raised in your comment.I hope you are aware of them.I do not intend to enter in serious discussion in a piece projected as ”humorous article”!!
If woman is merely human and more or less ”EQUAL”(Women are equal...Girls are equal..)then there is no need of laws and provisions which are woman oriented.Let no seats be reserved for woman in buses and trains.The fact is that men and women can never be equal.There is no point in harboring the illusion that both are equal.When I say that I don’t mean that women are inferior in any way to men.Let’s make the way smooth for them but in the process let’s not forget the differences.
”owing to varied reasons, the hottest being, ”women are showing signs of degrading womanness”-AND I WONDER WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THAT???”
Women themselves are to be blamed for this ”degradation” besides ideologies which make women forget about honouring limitations.
We love to point out differences in so many things and interestingly we readily accept them.But when we talk about differences between man and woman there are lots of raised eyebrows.
Yes,let’s make life of a woman at par with men or,for that matter,take all steps to elevate her stature as a human being but not without keeping differences in mind.
If that sounds provocative and absurd then please kill the labels like ”man” and ”woman”.Let’s frame new rules which are not gender oriented.I know it’s an utopian ideal because a woman is always going to be a woman in the ages.That’s also true for man as well..ha..ha.
We may pretend that we have carved routes which are not gender specific but pretending is not going to quash the stark reality-the great difference.
I know it’s an Utopian ideal because a woman is always going to be a woman in all the ages.
His frequent interruptions in form of his comments have become like a mobile ringing amid a serious conversation...ha..ha.
The most intelligent of all on this page.
”One hand you say that you go shoulder to shoulder with men and then the other hand you show that you are poor little things”
this post is not a feminist manifesto crying out loud about feminine problems!
this is about reminding all, that HUMAN BEHAVIOUR IS COOL and should not be forgotten!
about human behaviour and civility...which is decent...don’t you think so...?
”i mean instead of old lady there was to be an old man,will a woman offer him her seat????never”
YOU ARE WRONG
I THINK THEY ALL SHOULD...I DO AND WOULD DO IT...
...and i have seen others(LADIES) doing it as well!
see it’s not a war we are fighting here...this is just my side of the story...
”Look into your side first and then blame others,o.k.....”
TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!
without being gender specific let us be needs pecefic
i will give a seat to a pregnant lady any day also to a handicapped or a child
for a mother with a child i will expect her to stand near ladies seat to wait her turn
as as much as 30% seats are reserved for ladies at certain public transport
exactly, that’s the HUMAN CODE OF HAPPY CONDUCT!
it’s not gender specific, it’s people specific...though it generally and habitually tends to tilt to a particular gender!
LOL
:)
”bit I firmly believe two (or more species or objects, etc..) can be distinctly different and still hold the same value: This is equality in my eyes...”
Thanks for accepting that ”difference” exists,albeit in a subtle way.I am also in favour of total”HUMAN equality” for women.
All problems start when women fail to realize that there exists a ”distinctly different” difference!!!!There is something called honouring one’s limitations,Let’s also remember that.
Lioness and domestic cat belong to the same family but that does not mean we should forget the difference.The difference exists or ,for that matter, is always going to exist.It’s up to us whether we accept it or not.Once we accept that fact there is bound to be difference in ways and means and perceptions.There is no need to be feel ashamed at our limitations.
sk
i feel disappointed when despite sufficient seats being reserved for ladies they hover around general sections & expect men old enough to be their father or grand father to offer them seats
this is hypocracy & does not vibe with gender equality
though rowdiness is not the sole prerogative of men i find the behavior of girls in popular reality show roadies deplorable
the way they utter profanity & their bohemian life style puts me off
their boozing & smoking just to prove a point of their being rough & tough shows the lack of self belief
a tiger seldom asserts itself so ladies can be assertive in a dignified manner
back slapping & hugging men & cracking dirty jokes , pelvic movements on raunchy numbers may not be the only way
to sound cool , applies to men also
of course times are changing & i better accept the same
this program(roadies) is a favorite of my wife & daughter
personally i never take initiative to shake hands with ladies ( also for men as i feel that i may catch infection)
Yes, i will agree to all the alterations which are creeping into the ”female”...but that’s a different story altogether...
here i am urging people to take out their decency out of their cupboards and wear it on the streets....
they will look much better!
we ARE NOT debating here on gender degradation...but the dilapidating norms of social courtsey!
some commentators on this post have ”benignly” diverted the fulcrum away from the main intent of my post...much to my frustation...
Thank You!
Terrific observations.
@ Shahwar K
we ARE NOT debating here on gender degradation...but the dilapidating norms of social courtesy!
The dilapiadating norms of social courtesy are inseparably linked with moral degradation.Greater the degradation, lesser becomes the urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.
Anyway, all such ”norms of social courtesy” are indicative of our ”SAMSKARAS”.No need to tell that most of us are not in possession of prized Samskaras.
Terrific observations.
@ Shahwar K
we ARE NOT debating here on gender degradation...but the dilapidating norms of social courtesy!
The dilapiadating norms of social courtesy are inseparably linked with moral degradation.Greater the degradation, lesser becomes the urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.
Anyway, all such ”norms of social courtesy” are indicative of our ”SAMSKARAS”.No need to tell that most of us are not in possession of prized Samskaras.
”Greater the degradation, lesser becomes the urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.”
you are confused...and are confusing me as well...
what, pray is the difference between
1.moral degradation
and
2.urge to respect the prevalent societal norms.
they are one and the same thing!!!
I was forced to reply to this...”moral degradation, is in my view, simply, a more ”compact phrase”, for statement no.2!
and moreover...MORALITY has nothing to do with anything in my post here...
It’s got to do with ”civility”...which I think everyone can afford to exhibit...
whereas
MORAL DEGRADATION is an inherent human failing...that can hardly be rectified in many cases!
Morality is different...
Civility is different!
For the umpteenth time I will say that, this post tells one about ”what” is missing...and that it would have been much better if that ”something” would have been there!
what many people here have done is, to furnish various ”reasons” why they think what they are not doing is something they rightly shouldn’t, owing to unlady like ladies, and blah blah blah...
fine with me...people are free and entitled to as many excuses as their conscience may permit them!
AND PLEASE!!!DO NOT TRY AND ENTANGLE STUFF HERE IN THE ”MORAL” CIRCUS!
thank you...I hope the ”flowery language” acts no hindrance in getting the point safely across to you!
I am not all confused. Just think more. You will definitely come to establish a link between social courtesy and moral degradation.
It’s not about difference. What I wish to say that urge to respect ”civility” is rarely seen in people plagued by moral degradation.
On the contrary I feel you were not sure about the issue at hand. Had you been sure you would have not linked ”civility” with ”manhood”.
Since you have linked civility with traits governing man, the commentators are bound to target mannerism of women which would not have been the case had you really discussed about civility alone in your ”humorous” piece.
One thing more.I feel none of the commentators are defending men for ” not offering their seats ” when they talk about ”falling standards” in behaviour of women.They are simply pointing out missing elements in your article which looks more like outpourings of a die-hard ”feminist” instead of person bothered about lack of civility.
IS DISPLAY OF CIVILITY GENDER-ORIENTED?
ofcourse it’s not...and that’s why I wonder why moral degradation has been linked with women alone here...
as simple as that!
”missing elements in your article which looks more like outpourings of a die-hard ”feminist” instead of person bothered about lack of civility.”
WOW!
and there are, ofcourse there are missing elements...and that happens to be the ”courtesy” i have been talking about all this while...
...this post didn’t start out as anti-man...but you’ll directed the post to a gender gang war! :)
as i said earlier, somewhere in my comments...that this is my side of the story...and I happen to be a female...and if speaking for my clan...leads it to be labeled as being ”feminist” THEN SO BE IT!
I DON’T CARE...IT’S BETTER TO BE A FEMINIST...atleast I didn’t call anyone’s MORAL STANDARDS INTO QUESTION HERE...which you quite painstakingly delved into...
loosen up...!
and yes, one more thing...you ARE, still...CONFUSED!
civilty...and morality...have nought chemistry...
but if you choose to remain in happy delusion...!
-
It’s crystal clear to me that your intentions were dubious while penning the article In other words, a mere glance on your article is sufficient to reveal that your motive was to enter in male-bashing in a so-called “humorous article” that purportedly talks about honouring “civility”. I don’t know whether you did it knowingly or unknowingly?
Anyway, I should have a respect for your viewpoint in an environment surcharged with feminine vibrations!!!
Well, if you think that issue of “moral degradation” has been invoked to justify male behaviour then you are wrong. Both are victim of this degradation and it’s a phenomenon that has affected both sexes in equal measures. One was forced to attribute it to a woman because of your obsession with limited view of what’s really taking place in world in your article that deals with “’MEN’ and their ’MANNERS’...! ”
In nutshell, let’s view things in totality. Just because a man has unfolded the hidden truths about a woman one cannot accuse him of being anti-feminist.
Well, I am sure that I am not enveloped in “happy delusion”, forget about being confused.
“civilty...and morality...have nought chemistry...”
Here is a short piece that establishes chemistry (read relation) with them.
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CIVILITY
Civility...is the sum of the many sacrifices we are called to make for the sake of living together. When we pretend that we travel alone, we can also pretend that these sacrifices are unnecessary. Yielding to this very human instinct for self-seeking... is often immoral, and certainly should not be done without forethought. We should make sacrifices for others not simply because doing so makes social life easier (although it does), but as a signal of respect for our fellow citizens, marking them as full equals, both before law and before God. Rules of civility are thus also rules of morality; it is morally proper to treat our fellow citizens with respect, and morally improper not to. Our crisis of civility then is part of a larger crisis of morality. And because morality is what distinguishes humans from other animals, the crisis is ultimately one of humanity.
((Taken from Civility: Manners, Morals, and the Etiquette of Democracy by Stephen L. Carter)
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need based help should be given to any one who is needy
it will be graceful if the same is appreciated else the do gooder should keep doing good without expecting any thing
a tree gives fruit to those who pelt it with stones
sk ignorance is bliss
you may reply to a sarcastic\irrational remark silently
your time energy has much better uses
sorry for the unwanted advice
I thank you very much for your comment!
And I really appreciate it as well!
”sorry for the unwanted advice”
Sir, please do not embarass me by saying this...I respect you, and your opinions about everything...and Sir, you being my elder, moreover with a sane and composed mind, I shall gladly as ever accept and comply with your advice...
Really appreciated it!
Thank you Sir!
...Make of all this what you will....
I make nought of it...LOL!
as you can see, I do not accept linking civility with morality...even though however wrong I may be!
And moreover, my post didn’t start or in any way culminate on that motive either!
If ”some” people here wish to entangle themselves in unnecessary hazards...all I can do is wish them at it!
LOL!
Am really grateful as usual to you for joining in with those precious comments!
Thank you Michael!
people who are just plain, good old fashioned kind...
needn’t worry either...
whatever the do, ou of piety, or civility,
gets registered in one’s DIVINE SCORE CARD...
so even if you want it or not, you are getting your scores alright!
it’s linked but in a very delinked way...
gaseous chain!
merry christmas
hope there is no blood shed on this day
It’s not at all an” unwanted advice”!! Tightening up the debate, when issues raised by the author have been dealt with in light of proper arguments, is surely killing time and energy both!!
” it will be graceful if the same is appreciated else the do gooder should keep doing good without expecting any thing....a tree gives fruit to those who pelt it with stones...”
—This state of mind is not easy to attain. I hope you are aware of that fact. That’s called “samattva” and only a ”sthiti pargaya” can attain this state.
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@ SHAHWAR K
—–Enjoyed talking with you. Let’s suspend the discussion aimed at establishing a link between ”morality” and ”civility”. A serious debate is not possible in an issue raised in lighter vein!!!
“There can be no high civility without a deep morality” – Ralph Waldo Emerson
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@ MICHAEL C
”After all, giving money to a beggar is a cool gesture, whether you do it out of piety or just wanting to help the guy buy a sandwich LOL!!””
—–Interesting view. It’s better if such “COOL GESTURE” gets combined with right intention!!!
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Global Opinions (18)
Several times have seen that even if all the general seats are filled and the seats marked specifically for women are empty... ppl do not usually utilise them.
This is totally unseen in North! believe it or not...but its a fact.
I think the Noth ppl should start copying the South life style.. preferably they should start from Rasam-Sambhar ;)...kidding
Something more just came into my mind!
Jokes apart... I do not believe in any difference between men and women, so dont think leaving a seat by a guy for a girl is good... but leaving the seat by a one (he/she) for the elderly ppl should be must, and people should be educated for that. It doesnt mean that we do not know this... its just that we miss doing this on the spur of the moment.
Even I have done this, Once I was sitting in a crowded bus and an elderly gentleman came and stood next to me... I thought of offering him my seat... but then thought how would others react to it.... poor me... just kept on thinking about the stupid surrounding... and missed offering him seat... That was really very bad of me, but after that incident have made sure that whenever I am under such a situation... I vacate the seat first.
I think we need to nurture this attitude...
one suggestion: You and your friends can start doing this all the time (I know you already do this). What I am trying to mention here is that we need to create an awareness about it. You know something very good in our society... We are able to learn from others very quickly...so utilise them.
Dont stop until you succeed!
It will take time to change ppl’s mind, But I would say if you are able to change one person’s mind within a period of one year.... You have already won one set in the game!
achievable ....right...
just never be down in your spirits...keep them high all the time inspite of failures... as thats the mantra of success !
Wish you and your friends all the best...
LOL! Tell me about it. I know that feeling only too well!!
(See my post about the subway/getting older etc.)
Without wanting to get into the polemic here, I personally think it’s cool to help women with babies-in-arms (they find it difficult to stand with only one hand free, pregnant women of all ages, women with a lot of shopping etc, older people, and, of course, the pretty woman I am trying to be gallant too LOL!!!!
Common sense really, isn’t it?
And just good-old-fashioned civil behaviour.
Yep!!
To tell you more ”common sense is very uncommon in todays world”... stupiity rules!
(and at the risk of offending certain points of view),
This is cultural too.
It is really badly seen here for a man not to give up a seat to those who need it. I’m not saying it’s systematic to give up a seat, but it’s very common. (As I said, it even happened to ME!!)
If what you say in the post is true though, and from what I read in the comments, all I can say is that it’s another world.
Certain attitudes expressed on the post would be TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE here.
Hope this helps to ”perspectivise” things.
(”Perspectivise”. New regular verb, invented by yours truly)
Byeee!!
AND, because my idea of a pretty woman isn’t necessarily yours, they ALL get a seat from time to time!!
What could be cooler than that!!
Just courtoisie and human interaction.
Seeya...
You are (maybe unwittingly?) absolutely right.
”Being badly seen” is very strong here. It has to do with the rigid social code that the French set themselves. There are downsides to it (another subject) but one upside is, as you imply, that French people in general detest inelegant manners.
Men who infringe this social convention get called ”goujat” which translates into ”lout” ”uncouth person” or ”uneducated boor”.
And a Frenchman (and me too) would rather DIE than be called that!!!! LOL!
Courage.......
Don’t you think that it’s important to do it anyway? I mean yes it’s frustrating when people don’t (and you’re right, it happens) thank others for kindnesses, but it’s not systematic.
If we stopped holding doors, lifts etc and giving up our seats because of a few people’s behaviour, then no-one would be polite to anyone any more, and bad behaviour will have won the day.....
It’s a bit like working with homeless people (which I have). They don’t always seem very appreciative of what is done for them, but we can’t let that stop us helping them....
My wife, an american does the same..for men, women, children, elderly..in need or not..
We have taught our children to do the same..Isa is ten, and and is always eager to help with door, grocery bags, etc...
I don’t think it has anything to do with MACHOISM or FEMINISM..weak or strong...
I only see it as being HUMAN..Of course once offered, every individual has the right to DENY our assistance..but it is being courteous..The thought that counts, even if the act is not accepted..
I will agree with many comments..Times have changed.. ”Ladies” aren’t always what we once considered ”lady-like”...but SO WHAT...They are HUMAN..I can’t say I would offer my seat to EVERY 16 year old girl (hell I’M old...lol), but I would most definitly acess the situation..and I would definitly, open the door for her, help her with overloaded bags, etc...
Like I said...We need to change our thinking..It’s not about MAN or WOMAN..That type of thinking may be out ”of style.”
BUT BASIC CIVIL COURTEOUSNESS AND HUMANITY does not go out of style.
We are no longer in the 40’s, 50’s etc..Women don’t NEED to be meager, etc..Women are equal...Girls are equal..Just becaue they don’t wear head to toe dresses, avoid eye contact, and sit with legs crossed, hands peacefully and femininly folded in their laps, smiling in SILENCE, doesn’t mean they are NOT lady like...TIMES CHANGE..
PEOPLE DON’T, HUMANS DON’T, COMMON COURTEOUSY DOESN’T (or shouldn’t)..
My wife says ”have a nice day”, ”Good Morning (afternoon, etc..) to every one she sees..We say please, thank you, May I, Could you please....
This HAS NOTHING to do with what MEN SHOULD DO FOR women...., AND EVERYTHING to do with what we should do for our fellow citizen: man, women, child, old, young, ugly, pretty, poor, rich and in between.
Just like Oscar’s. I could have written all his comments........
It’s not THAT complicated chrissakes!!!
Thank you so much for a civilised point of view Oscar.
Can’t comment it, because it would all be ”yes I agree” everywhere!!! LOL
Sex wars should be a thing of the past, my friend, and for that to happen there needs to be a little less mutual distrust and ”you-change-first” and a little more compromise and sociability.
Respects.
There are two things I hate in life.
One is cold showers, and the other is
PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SITE TO SELL PRODUCT!!!!!
Please stop. If you do not, sorry to say this, you will BE stopped by the site.
Your comments on the post were cool.
Selling stuff isn’t.
Conclusion - choose.
Or the choice will be made for you.
(Friendly advice).
Seeya!
Helo my friend..When I say women , girls are ”equal”....I mean it..As humans you, I, the old the young, the weak the strong MEN or WOMEN all have the same HUMAN value...
Maybe you feel different, and that is every bit your right, bit I firmly believe two (or more species or objects, etc..) can be distinctly different and still hold the same value: This is equality in my eyes...
My point is just that (what you mentioned) I DON’T feel special laws or provisions should be made for women OR MEN for that matter...WE ARE ALL HUMAN..
I think a couteous person who saw a woman or man or child in need (pregnant, carrying a child, elderly, frail, children, sick...etc) would do what he/she could to help the other person......whether it be a seat, a door, a lift, a hand, a smile, a thanks, etc....
I think an WOMAN should do the same..whether it be for a man, woman, or child...I am simply stating about HUMAN equality and the need for courtousy in society..regardless of sex..
I could never paint a picture that men and women are the SAME...we have many different qualities and characterisitcs..but when it comes down to it, they all balance out to create equality in the HUMAN RACE.
His writings are based on his being a religious man, and linking civility to secular morality is, for him, evidence that man alone cannot be civil.
Carter writes, in the book quoted,
”civility, like any other moral principle, has no firm rock on which to stand. Civility that rests on the shifting sands of secular morality might topple with the next stiff political wind.”
He thus believes in a link between civility and morality, but only when they are both associated with religious principles.
In the western world his book (and work in general) has often been negatively reviewed due to what is seen as his over-emphasised assimilation of the question of civility (or whatever else he writes about) to religion.
Example of a negative review?
”Carter crams so many notions of virtuous behavior into his discussion of civility that the term ceases to have any specific meaning at all”.
Make of all this what you will....
But I can well understand those who do too, and I have no problem with it.
I mean, it isn’t important at the end of the day. What IS important is being civilised.
After all, giving money to a beggar is a cool gesture, whether you do it out of piety or just wanting to help the guy buy a sandwich LOL!!
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Good!
...but scaffolded by an ironical subtext of deep heartfelt pathos!
LOL!
thanks for commenting...b.t.w., you not in a mood of defending your tribe, are you?
fair enough!
:)